This needs to stop

Written by Tundy, 24.08.2013 at 20:07

Written by Dr Lecter, 24.08.2013 at 19:52

Written by Cpt.Magic, 24.08.2013 at 19:23

Ur saying that no one likes it when its ALL MOST THE MOST PLAYED SENARIO and who are u to tell people they cant play a game they like?

Oh my god you ignored like 90% of what I'm telling you.

It's not just about people damn liking it. No one will like the result of strategically-brain-dead players pissing off all of our hosts enough to make them quit, effectively denting AW's reputation and it's income.

i give up hosting scenarios and making maps along time ago, each time i make one super map people never play it cuz UN gets all the players, and when i get to get it full is ruined within 5 turns by a wf or leaver.

This is exactly the kind of thing I am talking about.
Sure it's only one game host- but before long the next and the next and then the next loyal game hosts of Atwar will be gone. I remember there was once a major activity problem, I was a rank 6 to rank 7 at the time. Hosting just stopped dead in it's tracks. It was around this time that I bought premium and decided to host games myself because others weren't willing to. Eventually (obviously not JUST BECAUSE of me) hosting started to pick up a little bit. New players on the scene like Clovis and others bought premium features and such and decided to spread the joy.

what's going to happen this time when tons of loyal hosts go away, and no one is going to be good enough (strategically, experience wise) to understand why Turk - Ukraine combo shouldn't be happening in a Euro+ 3v3. Then what happens when WF goes unchecked?

The UNs that I am thinking of encourage and invoke foul play in the atmosphere. Once these people explore new games, they'll only spread the stench. It won't be long before the new generation effectively corrodes AW to a nothing.

What your saying is stupid your telling people stop playing a game they like and start to play something they dont like

Its like me telling u stop playing ww2 games because its to POPULAR

Written by Cpt.Magic, 24.08.2013 at 20:36

What your saying is stupid your telling people stop playing a game they like and start to play something they dont like

Its like me telling u stop playing ww2 games because its to POPULAR

I rarely play WW2, but I know what you're saying.

Look, UNs actually rot people's strategic understanding. WW2s, 3v3s, etc. Those aren't actually undermining people's brains, nor do they conflict with the flow of the game.
UNs cause to many damn problems. WW2 doesn't do that. 3V3 doesn't do it. Even world games with no particular structure don't do conflict with regular game play.

Every game so far has done it's job and has not been a pain in the ass to the rest of AW EXCEPT UNs. It's a massive farming projects when it's done wrong. I don't want people to play things they don't like- but understand that UN isn't something healthy for the community has a whole.

We never had many problems with hosts quitting due to fail games and a lack of players before UN sparked. UN invokes foul play. It undermines the culture.

I'm saying that there needs to be a solution. I understand your problem with it- I'd be pissed if AW took away my 3v3s. But at least 3v3s aren't hurting the community. UNs present a problem that requires a solution. That's all I need to say.

What solution is out there? I can only help guide people to solutions. But understand that a solution must be made. I'm sure I've done well enough at explaining it's a problem. And with a testimony by tunder, It's sort of confirmed that this does affect other players beyond those that love to farm in 3v3.

Death to UN Games!

UN is the scum of AW, period.

DIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

Written by Cpt.Magic, 24.08.2013 at 20:36

What your saying is stupid your telling people stop playing a game they like and start to play something they dont like

Its like me telling u stop playing ww2 games because its to POPULAR

ww2 is the only popular non-diplomacy game.... if you tell people not to play ww2 this game will die within a month.

if u delete UN Games the fanbase will decrese for a month and then it will increase like a rocket.

Written by Tundy, 24.08.2013 at 22:16

Written by Cpt.Magic, 24.08.2013 at 20:36

What your saying is stupid your telling people stop playing a game they like and start to play something they dont like

Its like me telling u stop playing ww2 games because its to POPULAR

ww2 is the only popular non-diplomacy game.... if you tell people not to play ww2 this game will die within a month.

if u delete UN Games the fanbase will decrese for a month and then it will increase like a rocket.

And there it is again, Admiral.

There is a fine line between what's been constructive and what's destructive.

Sometimes you have to remove things for the sake of the game. Like the nerf on Imp because militia were literally free.

Honestly, I don't play UN much at all. Do I like the concept? Yes. I don't play it much cause the trolls ruin it and what not so I stick to Boring old Europe games. Should there be something for Scenarios like that? Ofcourse. But nero there is also a rank limit on which you can allow into your games.

Written by Mr_Own_U, 24.08.2013 at 22:44

Honestly, I don't play UN much at all. Do I like the concept? Yes. I don't play it much cause the trolls ruin it and what not so I stick to Boring old Europe games. Should there be something for Scenarios like that? Ofcourse. But nero there is also a rank limit on which you can allow into your games.

I understand that, but I always see a rank 3 or 4 wanting to play UN. That's the issue. If players who just started playing know only UN, they will be bad players in the long run. That's why I at least want to see a permanent 6+ rank limit. This gives them time to learn the game for what it is, a war game. The only thing they learn in UN is that if anything threatening happens to them, they can go cry to a higher power to have that issue sorted out. That happens no where else. Then if they ever play a regular game, they are screwed.

Written by Nero, 24.08.2013 at 22:55

Written by Mr_Own_U, 24.08.2013 at 22:44

Honestly, I don't play UN much at all. Do I like the concept? Yes. I don't play it much cause the trolls ruin it and what not so I stick to Boring old Europe games. Should there be something for Scenarios like that? Ofcourse. But nero there is also a rank limit on which you can allow into your games.

I understand that, but I always see a rank 3 or 4 wanting to play UN. That's the issue. If players who just started playing know only UN, they will be bad players in the long run. That's why I at least want to see a permanent 6+ rank limit. This gives them time to learn the game for what it is, a war game. The only thing they learn in UN is that if anything threatening happens to them, they can go cry to a higher power to have that issue sorted out. That happens no where else. Then if they ever play a regular game, they are screwed.

Just going to add some beef to Nero's argument:

Not only are they screwed if they play regular games- they generally won't play ANY game after UN. That means the rest of us happy campers who know how to play all trades of the game are shit out of luck because no other game besides UN will be played.

I regret the 7k SP I earned, no let me re-phrase that. The 7k sp that was FARMED out of the UN games. I played straight EU+ and world games that got me to 3/4 of the way to a rank 6. Then the UN SP gave me that boost to rank 6. And I regret it SO much. Now, I'm labeled as a rank 6, when I should be a rank 5 who need's about 3k sp to get to rank 6. I still wish I was a rank 5. So, when I lose at least people's thoughts are "He played well as a rank 5." Instead of "I expected more from a rank 6."

Now, I've become more devoted to learning strats. I've studied up PD and GW, trying new countries, and participating in more 3V3 games.

Written by Fockmeeard, 24.08.2013 at 23:22

I regret the 7k SP I earned, no let me re-phrase that. The 7k sp that was FARMED out of the UN games. I played straight EU+ and world games that got me to 3/4 of the way to a rank 6. Then the UN SP gave me that boost to rank 6. And I regret it SO much. Now, I'm labeled as a rank 6, when I should be a rank 5 who need's about 3k sp to get to rank 6. I still wish I was a rank 5. So, when I lose at least people's thoughts are "He played well as a rank 5." Instead of "I expected more from a rank 6."

Now, I've become more devoted to learning strats. I've studied up PD and GW, trying new countries, and participating in more 3V3 games.

I don't think there's such a difference between rank 5s and rank 6s and I don't think 7k SP made such a huge gap in your skill-rank relationship.

There's a lot of skill involved in 3v3, but I have the most fun in world games and the best way to play world games is by not allying anyone (ok, sometimes, an alliance is necessary, but having no allies, no one but yourself to ask for help, is awesome to help you learn how to effectively fight more than one player at the same time).

Regarding UNs - I don't see any point in it. I get more SP and fun out of world games and faster too. Units are unbalanced, settings heavily discourage any sort of hostile takeover and just benefit whoever has the most land (and the most OP units, in which case it's UN with 18 range capping air units). I'm in favor of creating a tag "unbalanced" or something of the sort and apply to games like this, where the SP is drastically decreased or something like that.

However we'd be just dealing with the symptoms. The existence of UN games is a reaction to the high learning curve of this game. Who wants to play a game where you're only losing all the time?

Written by notserral, 24.08.2013 at 23:56

Written by Fockmeeard, 24.08.2013 at 23:22

I regret the 7k SP I earned, no let me re-phrase that. The 7k sp that was FARMED out of the UN games. I played straight EU+ and world games that got me to 3/4 of the way to a rank 6. Then the UN SP gave me that boost to rank 6. And I regret it SO much. Now, I'm labeled as a rank 6, when I should be a rank 5 who need's about 3k sp to get to rank 6. I still wish I was a rank 5. So, when I lose at least people's thoughts are "He played well as a rank 5." Instead of "I expected more from a rank 6."

Now, I've become more devoted to learning strats. I've studied up PD and GW, trying new countries, and participating in more 3V3 games.

I don't think there's such a difference between rank 5s and rank 6s and I don't think 7k SP made such a huge gap in your skill-rank relationship.

There's a lot of skill involved in 3v3, but I have the most fun in world games and the best way to play world games is by not allying anyone (ok, sometimes, an alliance is necessary, but having no allies, no one but yourself to ask for help, is awesome to help you learn how to effectively fight more than one player at the same time).

Regarding UNs - I don't see any point in it. I get more SP and fun out of world games and faster too. Units are unbalanced, settings heavily discourage any sort of hostile takeover and just benefit whoever has the most land (and the most OP units, in which case it's UN with 18 range capping air units). I'm in favor of creating a tag "unbalanced" or something of the sort and apply to games like this, where the SP is drastically decreased or something like that.

However we'd be just dealing with the symptoms. The existence of UN games is a reaction to the high learning curve of this game. Who wants to play a game where you're only losing all the time?

Ahem.

You can refer to my ratio if you'd like. I kept on going.

It's the willingness to learn that's the problem.

Written by Dr Lecter, 24.08.2013 at 23:59

Ahem.

You can refer to my ratio if you'd like. I kept on going.

It's the willingness to learn that's the problem.

When I want to learn a game, the option I LEAST want to take is trial-and-error. I'd rather read guides, watch videos, listen to podcasts about it. THEN try my hand at the game.

Written by notserral, 24.08.2013 at 23:56

Written by Fockmeeard, 24.08.2013 at 23:22

I regret the 7k SP I earned, no let me re-phrase that. The 7k sp that was FARMED out of the UN games. I played straight EU+ and world games that got me to 3/4 of the way to a rank 6. Then the UN SP gave me that boost to rank 6. And I regret it SO much. Now, I'm labeled as a rank 6, when I should be a rank 5 who need's about 3k sp to get to rank 6. I still wish I was a rank 5. So, when I lose at least people's thoughts are "He played well as a rank 5." Instead of "I expected more from a rank 6."

Now, I've become more devoted to learning strats. I've studied up PD and GW, trying new countries, and participating in more 3V3 games.

I don't think there's such a difference between rank 5s and rank 6s and I don't think 7k SP made such a huge gap in your skill-rank relationship.

There's a lot of skill involved in 3v3, but I have the most fun in world games and the best way to play world games is by not allying anyone (ok, sometimes, an alliance is necessary, but having no allies, no one but yourself to ask for help, is awesome to help you learn how to effectively fight more than one player at the same time).

Regarding UNs - I don't see any point in it. I get more SP and fun out of world games and faster too. Units are unbalanced, settings heavily discourage any sort of hostile takeover and just benefit whoever has the most land (and the most OP units, in which case it's UN with 18 range capping air units). I'm in favor of creating a tag "unbalanced" or something of the sort and apply to games like this, where the SP is drastically decreased or something like that.

However we'd be just dealing with the symptoms. The existence of UN games is a reaction to the high learning curve of this game. Who wants to play a game where you're only losing all the time?

I have to agree with you. World games without allying are the best by far. I am not very good at 3v3s. In fact, I don't think I have ever won one. Rarely do I ever play them though.

Anyways, back on topic, I play UN games a lot. Not because I want to, but because whenever I try to start a world game (20 players 10-15k extra cities) nobody comes. I like going to war with people. I like invading people. I find that fun. That's why when I play UN games I am very aggressive. That is also why I dislike 3v3s, I have limits to what I can conquer in a whole game. The only whole world games that ever get played anymore are shirty 10 player 50k no extra cities games which require no skill because you have so much money. Unless you are me of course and you run out of money by turn 15. But then I end up being squashed by allyfags who are rich as fuck from the 50k and not actually going to war with anyone while I am busy conquering everyone. For example, today I played a game where I started as Uzbekistan. I easily took out Pakistan (rank 8) and India (rank 4) who were allies, and then I went to conquer Europe. Wile I was dominating there, an allyfagged china came and squashed me while I was busy fighting three people in Europe. UN games only promote this allyfaggotry which suppresses actual skill.

Now the issue grows from the fact that I can't play my favorite type of game anymore. I can't learn the actual skill anymore. It is not uncommon that when I play world games I end up ally ending with whoever controls the America's. I can't remember the last time I actually crossed an ocean in a world game because I can't really do it properly now.

Lastly I will be responding to what I am quoting. I don't think the issue is that nobody wants to play games where they keep losing. I didn't make my way to rank 9 through UN games and allyfaggotry related with them, I made my way up b playing with people like Fruit, Himmler, Houdini and The ZOG and I actually learned strategy and skill because was facing these people. I didn't mind that I would lose because I knew it was part of the experience to get better. Besides, we have beginner games now.

Written by KYBL, 25.08.2013 at 00:18

Lastly I will be responding to what I am quoting. I don't think the issue is that nobody wants to play games where they keep losing. I didn't make my way to rank 9 through UN games and allyfaggotry related with them, I made my way up b playing with people like Fruit, Himmler, Houdini and The ZOG and I actually learned strategy and skill because was facing these people. I didn't mind that I would lose because I knew it was part of the experience to get better. Besides, we have beginner games now.

Maybe beginner games are the problem then?

Written by notserral, 25.08.2013 at 00:11

Written by Dr Lecter, 24.08.2013 at 23:59

Ahem.

You can refer to my ratio if you'd like. I kept on going.

It's the willingness to learn that's the problem.

When I want to learn a game, the option I LEAST want to take is trial-and-error. I'd rather read guides, watch videos, listen to podcasts about it. THEN try my hand at the game.

wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong.. The best tactic is first hand experience. Hands on, not reading some cheese eating guide. The GIFS are great, but learning a guide to play a particular country is the dumbest thing in the world which is what you pretty much said. The best way to learn is to experience everything for yourself.

Written by notserral, 25.08.2013 at 00:26

Written by KYBL, 25.08.2013 at 00:18

Lastly I will be responding to what I am quoting. I don't think the issue is that nobody wants to play games where they keep losing. I didn't make my way to rank 9 through UN games and allyfaggotry related with them, I made my way up b playing with people like Fruit, Himmler, Houdini and The ZOG and I actually learned strategy and skill because was facing these people. I didn't mind that I would lose because I knew it was part of the experience to get better. Besides, we have beginner games now.

Maybe beginner games are the problem then?

This could be another issue.

Adding on to what I said before, I miss having Grape Sodas all the time, those were great games

Written by notserral, 25.08.2013 at 00:11

Written by Dr Lecter, 24.08.2013 at 23:59

Ahem.

You can refer to my ratio if you'd like. I kept on going.

It's the willingness to learn that's the problem.

When I want to learn a game, the option I LEAST want to take is trial-and-error. I'd rather read guides, watch videos, listen to podcasts about it. THEN try my hand at the game.

I didn't have guides and tutorials, and all the high ranks I asked didn't bother.

I learned for myself through trial and error. I turned out fine. I hope to one day overcome my awful ratio and prove that the experience I got was worth while.

Written by Dr Lecter, 25.08.2013 at 00:46

Written by notserral, 25.08.2013 at 00:11

Written by Dr Lecter, 24.08.2013 at 23:59

Ahem.

You can refer to my ratio if you'd like. I kept on going.

It's the willingness to learn that's the problem.

When I want to learn a game, the option I LEAST want to take is trial-and-error. I'd rather read guides, watch videos, listen to podcasts about it. THEN try my hand at the game.

I didn't have guides and tutorials, and all the high ranks I asked didn't bother.

I learned for myself through trial and error. I turned out fine. I hope to one day overcome my awful ratio and prove that the experience I got was worth while.

I learned the exact same way

We sort of drifted into the topic of how players gain experience.

Let's remind ourselves something:

We're talking about other problems larger than just the players who play UN. Because of the UN Problem (it's undeniable at this point- my arguments on UN being a problem were solid) game hosts will eventually quit (If I may, I draw upon Tunder as testimony), and thus the game has absolutely no flavor to it.

People will be left with these laggy, poor UNs that take a long time to start and a long time to finish. 3v3s and other more stable games just won't exist. They'll be replaced by UNs, that will rarely take off because people mass leave- resulting in dozens of rebakes that may too never take off.

Thus, the death of AW.

I try to make world games all the time but people never come so I don't even see a point in trying anymore.

Ok as much as i hate UN the truth is noone can force people to play something.does un games promote noobness?hell yes.but its their choice if they want to play it,anything more is fascism.its like gay sex.If someone likes it who is anyone to tell them what they should like.bottom line is while i think un's promote noobness,if thats what people like i have no right to force them play something else they dont like.
and a question like seriously who cares about sp?and why?

Written by Khal.eesi, 25.08.2013 at 02:50

Ok as much as i hate UN the truth is noone can force people to play something.does un games promote noobness?hell yes.but its their choice if they want to play it,anything more is fascism.its like gay sex.If someone likes it who is anyone to tell them what they should like.bottom line is while i think un's promote noobness,if thats what people like i have no right to force them play something else they dont like.
and a question like seriously who cares about sp?and why?

Alright.

fuck all reason and the community in general.

In 2 years when the community literally dead, I'm going to laugh maniacally while playing risk.

Written by Khal.eesi, 25.08.2013 at 02:50

Ok as much as i hate UN the truth is noone can force people to play something.does un games promote noobness?hell yes.but its their choice if they want to play it,anything more is fascism.its like gay sex.If someone likes it who is anyone to tell them what they should like.bottom line is while i think un's promote noobness,if thats what people like i have no right to force them play something else they dont like.
and a question like seriously who cares about sp?and why?

I guess it's because people get pissed when let's say a Rank 8 player play like a Rank 5 because they've only been playing UN since they were Rank 3-4(or whatever) so their strategic brain is not capable of the same as a player of the same Rank that gained it by playing World/3vs3 or something.

But why not remove SP from UN, it's supposed to be a fun gametype but problem is that UNs can farm it and gain a massive amount of SP from going rogue.
At least, if SP is removed from the UN players in UN games, going rogue is heavily discouraged as it has no purpose as you can't get yourself a nice little SP farm from capping players and whatnot.

Written by Dr Lecter, 25.08.2013 at 03:09

Written by Khal.eesi, 25.08.2013 at 02:50

Ok as much as i hate UN the truth is noone can force people to play something.does un games promote noobness?hell yes.but its their choice if they want to play it,anything more is fascism.its like gay sex.If someone likes it who is anyone to tell them what they should like.bottom line is while i think un's promote noobness,if thats what people like i have no right to force them play something else they dont like.
and a question like seriously who cares about sp?and why?

Alright.

fuck all reason and the community in general.

In 2 years when the community literally dead, I'm going to laugh maniacally while playing risk.

hehe man thats exactly what fascism is and how it works.It starts taking people's liberties away for the "general good".

It's not about liberties, damn it.

We have an opportunity to change things. Prove to amok & ivan that these UNs will kill the community.

What we're discussing here is almost like this:

Cut out the heart to save the body.

logic? error 404, not found.

We're wanting to support UNs because a couple of low ranks like them, even though they will eventually kill the community?
Is anybody sensible enough to understand that this just isn't an option?

Written by Pyrrhus, 25.08.2013 at 03:18

Written by Khal.eesi, 25.08.2013 at 02:50

Ok as much as i hate UN the truth is noone can force people to play something.does un games promote noobness?hell yes.but its their choice if they want to play it,anything more is fascism.its like gay sex.If someone likes it who is anyone to tell them what they should like.bottom line is while i think un's promote noobness,if thats what people like i have no right to force them play something else they dont like.
and a question like seriously who cares about sp?and why?

I guess it's because people get pissed when let's say a Rank 8 player play like a Rank 5 because they've only been playing UN since they were Rank 3-4(or whatever) so their strategic brain is not capable of the same as a player of the same Rank that gained it by playing World/3vs3 or something.

But why not remove SP from UN, it's supposed to be a fun gametype but problem is that UNs can farm it and gain a massive amount of SP from going rogue.
At least, if SP is removed from the UN players in UN games, going rogue is heavily discouraged as it has no purpose as you can't get yourself a nice little SP farm from capping players and whatnot.

I like this.

It's a start. Remove SP from UN.

Low ranks will be FORCED to play OTHER games besides UN to acquire their precious ranks- effectively removing the problem of a lack of skill.

Hopefully, an SP removal, if implemented, deters players from even bothering with UN. Then we eliminate the hazards it presents to the community.

Written by Anon, 24.08.2013 at 14:58

I think the image is broken, but also I disagree because people come to this game to have fun, so if they choose to play UN then that is there choice

Completely agreed. A lot of people don't like UN, for some reason, but a lot still do.