Dishonest hosts in casual, what to do about it?

Just wondering what people's experiences are with casual game hosts that defy the trust of the community by abusing issues in the game. That issue is that people who join after turn zero (as opposed to hosts who always join at turn zero) cannot recruit units until the next turn, so then most people as they join in turn 1 cannot recruit units.

It's typical practice for hosts to respect by handicapping themselves, ie not recruiting any units. I had an issue with a game recently where I pointed out to a host that they did this and instead of admitting to it, they pretended as though they'd never played the game before and that if they could recruit surely others could as well; any casual player who'd ever played a game they did not host themselves would know that's a complete lie. Well I go to a new game today, and turns out they blocked me over this lol

Anyway, what kind of community standards can we develop over hosts like this who don't abide by the practice of not recruiting at turn zero? To start with I will block the user ____, until they commit to not abusing the game like this. I know that this issue has been brought up before, so has there been any commitment from the developers to allow casual games players who join a game at turn 1 to recruit units?

(edited by luke to remove player names)

Written by chiara_, 28.10.2020 at 22:16

Just wondering what people's experiences are with casual game hosts that defy the trust of the community by abusing issues in the game. That issue is that people who join after turn zero (as opposed to hosts who always join at turn zero) cannot recruit units until the next turn, so then most people as they join in turn 1 cannot recruit units.

It's typical practice for hosts to respect by handicapping themselves, ie not recruiting any units. I had an issue with a game recently where I pointed out to a host that they did this and instead of admitting to it, they pretended as though they'd never played the game before and that if they could recruit surely others could as well; any casual player who'd ever played a game they did not host themselves would know that's a complete lie. Well I go to a new game today, and turns out they blocked me over this lol

Anyway, what kind of community standards can we develop over hosts like this who don't abide by the practice of not recruiting at turn zero? To start with I will block the user @thedog, until they commit to not abusing the game like this. I know that this issue has been brought up before, so has there been any commitment from the developers to allow casual games players who join a game at turn 1 to recruit units?

I mean, I don't play casual, but it should be allowed? Is the host the only one that can make units t1?

Relevant:

https://atwar-game.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=15049
https://atwar-game.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=43169
https://atwar-game.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=40684
https://atwar-game.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=40881

Oh oof. I didn't realize the handicap was quite that bad, I guess I'll keep that in mind next time I start one.

I don't know why this hasn't been fixed. It's been an issue forever and significantly changes the opening of casual games. Is this even on the radar?

I'm the one chi_posting is talking about. Are you telling me that in a game the host can recruit when you start a game but as others join in they can't? I'm sure that they can and do.
We did have a short discussion through messaging. chi_posting 10.01.2020 - 02:12 I'm very disappointed in the GGG game that you recruited units while no other player could. This reflects poorly and I won't soon forget it.
thedog 10.01.2020 - 10:08 I'm pretty sure everyone was able to purchase units. Why would someone make a game that only 1 person could? I think you are mistaken.
chi_posting 10.13.2020 - 05:55 lol why would you tell such a ridiculous lie. you know that I know you're not telling the world, but it's you who have to go through the world being a liar
So after he calls me a liar he bans me from messaging him so I can't figure this out. After he banned me I did ban him. I know no one will believe me as I've been told "old people don't play at war" but I'm 67 years old, being a freemason, my word is my bond. I've never had anyone complain about my games so I'm trying to figure out what this guy is talking about.

Written by thedog, 13.11.2020 at 10:55

Looks like you have played many casual games to not know this .. but I will take it that you actually dont and you arent trolling

On casual games, only the host can train units t1 .. anyone else joining t1 can only use the infantries in their cities and have to wait for t2 to train new units

There is no rule that says hosts cant train units t1, but its just a matter of being fair .. most experienced casual games hosts dont do it

No, I am not trolling. As you can see, I have only 4 posts thats because I have a hard time figuring out this community thing. Stay with me. I'm not fooling around. You say "On casual games, only the host can train units t1" by train units do you mean purchase units? If that is so, the host should not purchase units until the start of turn 2? But it's alright to move the units I stated with that were in the cities. I do know not to attack on turn 1. I've been playing this game for over 6 years and never heard about it and nobody ever had any complaint with me then this guy chi_posting calls me a cheater and liar and bans me from messaging him to explain and figure it out. So I found how to ban him from messaging and games and I find out I was banned from his games. I have never been banned or banned anyone before. So now we cannot contact each other or play in the others games. Any ideas on how to proceed?

Written by thedog, 13.11.2020 at 18:48

No, I am not trolling. As you can see, I have only 4 posts thats because I have a hard time figuring out this community thing. Stay with me. I'm not fooling around. You say "On casual games, only the host can train units t1" by train units do you mean purchase units? If that is so, the host should not purchase units until the start of turn 2? But it's alright to move the units I stated with that were in the cities. I do know not to attack on turn 1. I've been playing this game for over 6 years and never heard about it and nobody ever had any complaint with me then this guy chi_posting calls me a cheater and liar and bans me from messaging him to explain and figure it out. So I found how to ban him from messaging and games and I find out I was banned from his games. I have never been banned or banned anyone before. So now we cannot contact each other or play in the others games. Any ideas on how to proceed?

yes i meant purchase/recruit .. and you're right; wait for t2 to make it fair for everyone who joins later

as for attacking on t1 .. I usually just wall my cities t1 and stay within my country borders if I host/join a casual game .. this is to avoid potentially attacking someone who would join later and pick that country I just attacked .. but i have seen many people who dont respect/unaware of this

I can reach out to the guy who banned you if you really care about it .. write me a massage and I will forward it to him

Written by thedog, 13.11.2020 at 18:48

No, I am not trolling. As you can see, I have only 4 posts thats because I have a hard time figuring out this community thing. Stay with me. I'm not fooling around. You say "On casual games, only the host can train units t1" by train units do you mean purchase units? If that is so, the host should not purchase units until the start of turn 2? But it's alright to move the units I stated with that were in the cities. I do know not to attack on turn 1. I've been playing this game for over 6 years and never heard about it and nobody ever had any complaint with me then this guy chi_posting calls me a cheater and liar and bans me from messaging him to explain and figure it out. So I found how to ban him from messaging and games and I find out I was banned from his games. I have never been banned or banned anyone before. So now we cannot contact each other or play in the others games. Any ideas on how to proceed?

I'm surprised thedog didn't know this but from my experience with him he seems like a good guy. The real blame is on atwar for not fixing these problems after the posts have built up over the years. The casual room should get the same attention, they are paying customers of your business. Also map makers keep us in mind and move t0 events to t1 please.

Written by Atomkrieg, 14.11.2020 at 08:04

I'm surprised thedog didn't know this but from my experience with him he seems like a good guy. The real blame is on atwar for not fixing these problems after the posts have built up over the years. The casual room should get the same attention, they are paying customers of your business. Also map makers keep us in mind and move t0 events to t1 please.

I, Dave, the owner of atWar -- I'm primarily a casual player myself. So why would you imply the casual room is somehow less important?

Yes I'm aware of the requests for some "t0" feature. The code left to me by my predecessors is so tangled up I haven't the foggiest idea how to make something like that actually work. On the other hand, the rule about hosts not expanding t1 seems to be pretty well known and followed already. So its not that urgent a problem in the grand scheme of things. But apart from that, anything the casual community needs I always support.

Casual scenarios always fail for some reason, or just start without one player

wait, people actually primarily play casual?

Written by Dave, 14.11.2020 at 21:57

Written by Atomkrieg, 14.11.2020 at 08:04

I'm surprised thedog didn't know this but from my experience with him he seems like a good guy. The real blame is on atwar for not fixing these problems after the posts have built up over the years. The casual room should get the same attention, they are paying customers of your business. Also map makers keep us in mind and move t0 events to t1 please.

I, Dave, the owner of atWar -- I'm primarily a casual player myself. So why would you imply the casual room is somehow less important?

Yes I'm aware of the requests for some "t0" feature. The code left to me by my predecessors is so tangled up I haven't the foggiest idea how to make something like that actually work. On the other hand, the rule about hosts not expanding t1 seems to be pretty well known and followed already. So its not that urgent a problem in the grand scheme of things. But apart from that, anything the casual community needs I always support.

Ok Dave no offense just trying to bring attention to the issue. As far as the players, we are for sure less important.

Written by Fatcheek, 14.11.2020 at 22:07

Casual scenarios always fail for some reason, or just start without one player

wait, people actually primarily play casual?

People who can't spend hours playing a scenario and most don't work the way they should because of t0 events. For example ww1 the host needs to pick Italy or it wont get transports. They do fail too much, hosts need to keep an active ban list.

V for Vendeta and I Hate You always produce t1 in their games and they are not inexperienced player ... They do it every time, and Vendeta often uses unbreakable walls in Las Americas map (units packed close around island so you cant strike a line between 2 units, and no air units to break by atacking unit itself). Guy should have been baned long ago.

Written by Atomkrieg, 15.11.2020 at 03:01

Ok Dave no offense just trying to bring attention to the issue. As far as the players, we are for sure less important.

Well casual players are not any less important to me. Especially since I'm one of them

Since this sounds like a difficult fix, we may have to live with this dilemma for a while.

Is there a better way to tell new casual players?

I think that I purchased units t1 in several casual games that I hosted before someone told me or before I read about the issue in the forum. If you know about this issue, host as often as you can, and tell others to read the forum. The scenario issue sounds even more problematic.

What are some other ideas for notifying new casual hosts?

I'm a casual player myself, having become a Supporter that was one thing I wanted to change. Prohibition to produce at T1 for the host, I mentioned it or the creation of a "0" turn.

Unfortunately as Dave said, it is not possible at the moment to change this. We must make do.

Now as with everything, people (host) respect or not, the fact of not producing on T1. Nothing can be done about it and at the same time it is not prohibited since it is a function of the game.

From time to time players mention it in the opening of their games, which will not produce units in T1, so choose their games there, or gradually identify players who do not produce in T1.

Written by Atomkrieg, 15.11.2020 at 03:07

Written by Fatcheek, 14.11.2020 at 22:07

Casual scenarios always fail for some reason, or just start without one player

wait, people actually primarily play casual?

People who can't spend hours playing a scenario and most don't work the way they should because of t0 events. For example ww1 the host needs to pick Italy or it wont get transports. They do fail too much, hosts need to keep an active ban list.

casual honestly sucks since no making units t1, and not to mention scenarios tend to always fail, and the people who start get more moves. it sucks

Written by Dave, 14.11.2020 at 21:57

Written by Atomkrieg, 14.11.2020 at 08:04

I'm surprised thedog didn't know this but from my experience with him he seems like a good guy. The real blame is on atwar for not fixing these problems after the posts have built up over the years. The casual room should get the same attention, they are paying customers of your business. Also map makers keep us in mind and move t0 events to t1 please.

I, Dave, the owner of atWar -- I'm primarily a casual player myself. So why would you imply the casual room is somehow less important?

Yes I'm aware of the requests for some "t0" feature. The code left to me by my predecessors is so tangled up I haven't the foggiest idea how to make something like that actually work. On the other hand, the rule about hosts not expanding t1 seems to be pretty well known and followed already. So its not that urgent a problem in the grand scheme of things. But apart from that, anything the casual community needs I always support.

Why not use the game start on hold feature? That's already there and seems like the code would play nice woth that feature. It would be on the host to come back and release the game for play but seems like a developer could make that work.

Written by jimmynow, 15.11.2020 at 18:27

Why not use the game start on hold feature? That's already there and seems like the code would play nice woth that feature. It would be on the host to come back and release the game for play but seems like a developer could make that work.

I already tried that. The code is a shit show and it just doesn't work.

Written by Kame Sennin Taz, 15.11.2020 at 07:26

I'm a casual player myself, having become a Supporter that was one thing I wanted to change. Prohibition to produce at T1 for the host, I mentioned it or the creation of a "0" turn.

Unfortunately as Dave said, it is not possible at the moment to change this. We must make do.

Now as with everything, people (host) respect or not, the fact of not producing on T1. Nothing can be done about it and at the same time it is not prohibited since it is a function of the game.

From time to time players mention it in the opening of their games, which will not produce units in T1, so choose their games there, or gradually identify players who do not produce in T1.

It's not impossible. It's just something no one has decided is that important. It's no different than any other coding problem. It's just that no one has decided it's worth addressing.

Written by Dave, 15.11.2020 at 18:31

Written by jimmynow, 15.11.2020 at 18:27

Why not use the game start on hold feature? That's already there and seems like the code would play nice woth that feature. It would be on the host to come back and release the game for play but seems like a developer could make that work.

I already tried that. The code is a shit show and it just doesn't work.

Sounds like you're giving up?

Written by jimmynow, 15.11.2020 at 18:36

Written by Dave, 15.11.2020 at 18:31

Written by jimmynow, 15.11.2020 at 18:27

Why not use the game start on hold feature? That's already there and seems like the code would play nice woth that feature. It would be on the host to come back and release the game for play but seems like a developer could make that work.

I already tried that. The code is a shit show and it just doesn't work.

Sounds like you're giving up?

Not giving up. Its just there's no point wasting so much time trying to fix it with the existing code. We would be better off throwing it out and rewriting from scratch... which is what I plan to do someday.

When is someday? Is that something you have planned?

Written by jimmynow, 15.11.2020 at 19:40

When is someday? Is that something you have planned?

Lol someday means someday. When I say I'm planning to do something that means its on my to-do list and won't be forgotten. If you want a specific date, I have no idea when I'll actually get to it. atWar is not the only thing I have to deal with, you know

Written by Dave, 15.11.2020 at 21:10

Written by jimmynow, 15.11.2020 at 19:40

When is someday? Is that something you have planned?

Lol someday means someday. When I say I'm planning to do something that means its on my to-do list and won't be forgotten. If you want a specific date, I have no idea when I'll actually get to it. atWar is not the only thing I have to deal with, you know

Lemme know when you start on that project if you need programmers. I have experience with several game engines and 5-6(11 if you count things like HTML) languages. I might be somewhat qualified.

Written by TriusMalarky, 16.11.2020 at 09:55

Written by Dave, 15.11.2020 at 21:10

Written by jimmynow, 15.11.2020 at 19:40

When is someday? Is that something you have planned?

Lol someday means someday. When I say I'm planning to do something that means its on my to-do list and won't be forgotten. If you want a specific date, I have no idea when I'll actually get to it. atWar is not the only thing I have to deal with, you know

Lemme know when you start on that project if you need programmers. I have experience with several game engines and 5-6(11 if you count things like HTML) languages. I might be somewhat qualified.

dave already said he's not accepting more coders buddy

Written by Fatcheek, 16.11.2020 at 13:26

Written by TriusMalarky, 16.11.2020 at 09:55

Written by Dave, 15.11.2020 at 21:10

Written by jimmynow, 15.11.2020 at 19:40

When is someday? Is that something you have planned?

Lol someday means someday. When I say I'm planning to do something that means its on my to-do list and won't be forgotten. If you want a specific date, I have no idea when I'll actually get to it. atWar is not the only thing I have to deal with, you know

Lemme know when you start on that project if you need programmers. I have experience with several game engines and 5-6(11 if you count things like HTML) languages. I might be somewhat qualified.

dave already said he's not accepting more coders buddy

Aight. Little sad, but cool. Gonna go try not to die in my casual games.

Written by TriusMalarky, 16.11.2020 at 15:27

Written by Fatcheek, 16.11.2020 at 13:26

Written by TriusMalarky, 16.11.2020 at 09:55

Written by Dave, 15.11.2020 at 21:10

Written by jimmynow, 15.11.2020 at 19:40

When is someday? Is that something you have planned?

Lol someday means someday. When I say I'm planning to do something that means its on my to-do list and won't be forgotten. If you want a specific date, I have no idea when I'll actually get to it. atWar is not the only thing I have to deal with, you know

Lemme know when you start on that project if you need programmers. I have experience with several game engines and 5-6(11 if you count things like HTML) languages. I might be somewhat qualified.

dave already said he's not accepting more coders buddy

Aight. Little sad, but cool. Gonna go try not to die in my casual games.

quick game is the superior my bro