Strategies Discussion 2015.
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Visited by: 236 users
There are still some strategies that need some work, but theres been a fair deal of improvement since the last round of changes.
We have 3 tiers of strategies atm. The competitive strategies, the middle ground strats and the almost useless strats.
Competitive Strats(competitive in that they all have a niche in which they are powerful):
Guerilla Warfare
Perfect Defense
Sky Menace
Iron Fist
Imperialist
Master of Stealth
Naval Commander
Desert Storm(almost in the next category)
Blitzkrieg
Middle Ground strats(not bad but not quite competent):
Great Combinator
Relentless attack
Almost useless:
Hybrid Warfare
Lucky bastard.
Ideally all of the strats should be in the first category. Lucky bastard was originally created as a troll strat, perhaps it is to stay that way if the community wishes. Some of the strats in the competitive category could use some tweaks, but the majority are widely considered perfect within the current meta.
I'll go through a quick breakdown of the strats.
Guerilla Warfare - Powerful in low/medium income areas with a medium/high city density(due to short range). Assuming cities are in range of its militia and marines it expands faster than any other strat due to the militia's attack and the acquiring of these buffed militia in every neutral taken. A powerful lategame strat.
Perfect Defense: A well rounded strat that can be used almost anywhere due to the low cost of its primary units and their high stats, Particularly powerful in the low-mid tier starting fund settings. However it can be dominated by the other strats in their specific niches.
Sky Menace - Powerful in medium-high income areas with low - high city densities. Can expand and travel fast and possesses great offensive power.
Iron Fist - Powerful in high income areas with a high city density. The most powerful offensive and defensive strat in the game, however it is limited by its short range. The recent change to its' transport range has seen it become a more popular pick competitively.
Imperialist - Powerful in low to medium income areas particularly with lots of spawn points. Possesses standard range on its units so is usable almost everywhere.
Master of Stealth - Powerful in medium to high income areas, particularly on big maps where it can make full use of its range and its stealth. Very mobile due to the range of its' marines and is arguably the most powerful lategame strat dominating even gw due to its meaneuvreability and powerful offense. Also possesses a decent naval presense.
Naval commander - Powerful on maps with medium to high income and lots of water and ports for it to make use of its naval transport range and powerful destroyers. Possesses the most powerful naval presense in the game.
Desert Storm: Powerful with lots of money, specifically against infantry based strats in countries with high starting funds. one of the competitive strategies which could arguably use some tweaks.
Blitzkrieg: Dangerous for surprise attacks and early game agression however it will fail vs most strats if the other has time and room to expand and grow strong. Has recently become a controversial strat due to its recently discovered power in europe+ 10k duels.
Great Combinator: Can be strong in medium to high income areas with lots of money. An attrition strat however currently in almost every situation you can use gc in a map with the default units theres a better strat choice.
Relentless Attack: A strat unique in that it has a singular boosted unit, however in function ra is the same as ds. You can pick a country with high starting funds, spam tanks and expand rapidly then go agressive. However it lacks any defensive capabilities and is dominated by pd and more powerful/versatile offensive strats like sm and mos.
Hybrid Warfare: Can be strong with lots of money, however currently it is too expensive to compete vs the competitive strats.
Lucky bastard: Is ok on high income maps, however in every situation you can use lb, theres a better strat choice. If i was to try and find a niche for lb it would be perhaps on some custom map with all "other" units with high stats and huge income.
Boosts nerfs to strats like pd/ds are controversial, so i am going to focus on the least used and widely acknowleged as weak strats, Particularly those that keep cropping up in general discussion and the ideas and suggestions section.
Boosts:
All boosts/nerfs have received support by the majority.
Great Combinator:
-10 cost to infantry.
Hybrid Warfare:
-20 to inf
Lucky Bastard:
+2 crit to all units.
Nerfs:
Blitzkrieg:
-1 defense to militia
We have 3 tiers of strategies atm. The competitive strategies, the middle ground strats and the almost useless strats.
Competitive Strats(competitive in that they all have a niche in which they are powerful):
Guerilla Warfare
Perfect Defense
Sky Menace
Iron Fist
Imperialist
Master of Stealth
Naval Commander
Desert Storm(almost in the next category)
Blitzkrieg
Middle Ground strats(not bad but not quite competent):
Great Combinator
Relentless attack
Almost useless:
Hybrid Warfare
Lucky bastard.
Ideally all of the strats should be in the first category. Lucky bastard was originally created as a troll strat, perhaps it is to stay that way if the community wishes. Some of the strats in the competitive category could use some tweaks, but the majority are widely considered perfect within the current meta.
I'll go through a quick breakdown of the strats.
Guerilla Warfare - Powerful in low/medium income areas with a medium/high city density(due to short range). Assuming cities are in range of its militia and marines it expands faster than any other strat due to the militia's attack and the acquiring of these buffed militia in every neutral taken. A powerful lategame strat.
Perfect Defense: A well rounded strat that can be used almost anywhere due to the low cost of its primary units and their high stats, Particularly powerful in the low-mid tier starting fund settings. However it can be dominated by the other strats in their specific niches.
Sky Menace - Powerful in medium-high income areas with low - high city densities. Can expand and travel fast and possesses great offensive power.
Iron Fist - Powerful in high income areas with a high city density. The most powerful offensive and defensive strat in the game, however it is limited by its short range. The recent change to its' transport range has seen it become a more popular pick competitively.
Imperialist - Powerful in low to medium income areas particularly with lots of spawn points. Possesses standard range on its units so is usable almost everywhere.
Master of Stealth - Powerful in medium to high income areas, particularly on big maps where it can make full use of its range and its stealth. Very mobile due to the range of its' marines and is arguably the most powerful lategame strat dominating even gw due to its meaneuvreability and powerful offense. Also possesses a decent naval presense.
Naval commander - Powerful on maps with medium to high income and lots of water and ports for it to make use of its naval transport range and powerful destroyers. Possesses the most powerful naval presense in the game.
Desert Storm: Powerful with lots of money, specifically against infantry based strats in countries with high starting funds. one of the competitive strategies which could arguably use some tweaks.
Blitzkrieg: Dangerous for surprise attacks and early game agression however it will fail vs most strats if the other has time and room to expand and grow strong. Has recently become a controversial strat due to its recently discovered power in europe+ 10k duels.
Great Combinator: Can be strong in medium to high income areas with lots of money. An attrition strat however currently in almost every situation you can use gc in a map with the default units theres a better strat choice.
Relentless Attack: A strat unique in that it has a singular boosted unit, however in function ra is the same as ds. You can pick a country with high starting funds, spam tanks and expand rapidly then go agressive. However it lacks any defensive capabilities and is dominated by pd and more powerful/versatile offensive strats like sm and mos.
Hybrid Warfare: Can be strong with lots of money, however currently it is too expensive to compete vs the competitive strats.
Lucky bastard: Is ok on high income maps, however in every situation you can use lb, theres a better strat choice. If i was to try and find a niche for lb it would be perhaps on some custom map with all "other" units with high stats and huge income.
Boosts nerfs to strats like pd/ds are controversial, so i am going to focus on the least used and widely acknowleged as weak strats, Particularly those that keep cropping up in general discussion and the ideas and suggestions section.
Boosts:
All boosts/nerfs have received support by the majority.
Great Combinator:
-10 cost to infantry.
Hybrid Warfare:
-20 to inf
Lucky Bastard:
+2 crit to all units.
Nerfs:
Blitzkrieg:
-1 defense to militia
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Laochra, Plz just listen to what i told you .. What i'm saying is you guys saying blitz is OP/ Omg unbeatable etc.... But you don't add it up with the pick it is chosen for. Ukraine makes it op cause it has too much reinf in 1vs1 i think. And since your only reason of nerfing the WHOLE blitz strategy comes from the BLITZ UKRAINE. Just try to think more about Ukraine in 1vs1. In 3vs3 Blitz is a good strat but it's not OP, i wouldn't say that. SM is better of my thinking
---- Only the Braves
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Ukraine needs a nerf, not blitz. ...thats all the wisdom. And to add i think it would be best if both turkey and ukraine get nerfed, turkey in reinforcements and ukraine in money ...enough with does two countries being OP for no reason and whole "skill measurement" and competitiveness being how good you play does two shits.
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youre saying blitz is not op, yet blitz can do what sm gw and pd cant, which is significantly outproduce turk without going agressive. And blitz ukraine does not provide my only reasoning if youve read my other posts. Also what is applicable on europe+ is applicable everywhere with the default units. Take germany vs ukraine for example. blitz can unload 70/80 units onto berlin turn 3, and ukraine receives no extra reins in this scenario. theres no hope of recapping since with a gen blitz units have formidable defense. Blitz ukraine is rubbish in teamgames, due to ally funding but right now we have waves of blitz spamming 1v1ers who use it in both east and west and exploit its excessive defensive power. Also Ukraine is NOT op. If you nerf ukraine youll destroy the teamgame balance where turk is already more than a match for it. Many of you do not play imp turk to its full potential. It can go madrid turn 3 while expanding up through italy into benelux while keeping 60 or so inf around the balkans and turk itself for defense. Not to mention lynchskis turk expands and the others i developed myself to specifically counter blitz. Blitz ukraine is the only strat which even if i dont defend ankara and dedicate all my units to expanding ukraine still outproduces me. You can do this on any map, the huge range of every unit allows you to expand rapidly and snowball every unit you possess onto your opponent.
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Sorry you are wrong this time Gob. As a regular 2 min turn player you should realize how overpowered blitz can be with Italy, Germany, even UK. The problem is the strategy, not Ukr. Blitz gives you near unlimited t1 expansions and makes you very unpredictable. After that it's just way too easy to over expand and spam late moves for free OP militia until you have so many units your opponent is overwhelmed. We are both competent blitz players and we both know these are the facts.
---- The church is near, but the road is icy... the bar is far away, but I will walk carefully...
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I'm not saying that Blitz ukr isn't the best strat for 1vs1 as ukr lao. I know it is, it's the one that performs the most with it. Especially for overexpansion as you told. But yet again and again my point is that Ukr is too op in 1VS1 not 3VS3. I don't want to nerf ukraine in TEAMGAME only in DUELS. Because i think that's more of it. I think you agree with me on the overall superiority of Ukraine over Turk in 1vs1 and i think the real problem is there. Blitz is the best strat to perform with Ukr. But in overall, blitz is not that op. In west duels sorry to say but Blitz is not good.... Only mb spain Blitz is good on the long shot. As uk it's just a rushy strat. As italy, you can't go for long games as it.
---- Only the Braves
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you cant nerf a specific country for 1v1s, not without very specific coding which ivan and amok are unlikely to do for one op strat/country combo, and as i said it isnt just a problem wth ukraine. I do not agree wth you at all with ukraine superiority in 1v1s, im not sure how you surmised that from my post. you are perfectly at liberty to employ other strats as ukraine vs my turk in duels and see how successful you are with them. But this is beside the point. Ive made all my points in regard blitz, at this point we can only agree to disagree. im not engaging in a circular debate.
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Well obviously it's not a good late game strat that's saying nothing. Most games are decided in the first 5 turns which is where blitz excels. Saying it's a rushy strat says nothing of how powerful it is.
---- The church is near, but the road is icy... the bar is far away, but I will walk carefully...
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Delete blitz and ra.
----  http://atwar-game.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=14714&topicsearch=&page= 
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Is this thread about blitz or about all the strats? Leave the popular ones (PD, SM, NC, Impi, IF and now blitz) how they are and work on bringing the others up to their level, if you are going to propose changes to any of the above then do so in baby steps.
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THIS.i cant believe all you nerds,brainiacs and bookeaters that posted in this thread, failed to find the real problem and a fellow drug addict, Goblinstrong found it. As goblin said JUST NERF TURK REINFORCEMENTS AND MAKE UKRAINE A LITTLE MORE EXPENSIVE.THERE, ALL PROBLEMS SOLVED.NOW YOU CAN PLAY DUELS EAST VS WEST ASWELL AND THE GAME BECOMES SUDDENLY BALANCED. GGNORE.idiots.
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You know there is an easy way to test if it is the countries or the strat. Clone the world map and adjust to see, of course though we as a group are 1) too lazy and 2) too stuck on default map to make these tests. Amok and Ivan stated they wont be adjusting the map, so it is up to us to test. EDIT: My suspicion though is increasing the expense of Ukraine would make late game easts even stronger or early game ukraines even stronger since to do so you would have to increase the Economy or troop count there.
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agree, its on us now.Laochra is good on tests.Lao do the tests please and i will help.Pm me the results and i will make the effort of posting them here 
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Acqui like 80% of the times i have won with Italy, Spain, and UK blitz were such close victories that i would hold my breath until the game was over ...most of the times me holding my opponents capital and maybe one or two countries while he would hold everything else including my own cap. Most of the time i saved myself only with walls or tb's and nothing else while relatively rarely did i overwhelm my opponent. But ok ...this things are hard to argue and i would be fine with any strategy changes.
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Small proposition for starters ...Russia northwest - make it infantry. Perhaps the change is not necessary in Ukraine directly ...but countries around it.
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Yes but to do that RNW would have to be 500 gold+, as I said whatever you do in that area will actually make late game expensive strats like blitz SM Mos etc more powerfull. Adding Troops would not work, reduicng troops especially in Ukraines case would make rushing it much easier. Anyways lets make a prototype map and test.
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all the strats you just mentioned struggle vs blitz rushes but can handle each other just fine. I for one am tired of dueling this new generation of players who with that strat just load all their troops into your expansion and hope for the best. A battle of guessing games of who attacks what, and its our own fault for making a strat which excels in that type of gameplay so powerful.
and with those changes you destroy a great and interesting teamgame dynamic 3 years in the making. Make a different map if you will which offers alternative gameplay(perhaps where mos is powerful). but dont touch the default competitive map.
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There in lies the problem, you are suggesting changes on a strat to cater for the 20 players that play 1v1 seriously, not that I am against small changes. As you said though with innovation this strategy can be countered, yes it is hard but is that not the point? Its a good thing that this strategy exists to break the monotony of Imp SM or PD play. In 3v3 terms it is not overly strong, in world games also it is not overpowered either, so 2/3 of the default map settings is is not OP. The First tournament I played it was thought that whoever got IF Germany would win The Second major tournament I played the saying went, whoever gets Ukraine SM wins The Third, whoever gets Impi Turkey wins. eventually someone will come along with a new OP counter to blitz Ukr, history dictates that.
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like people found counters to old op gc right? and old mos and gw. and 3hp if.... well gl with that, this thread will still be here in 6 months time when you realise that search is fruitless like the rest of us who actually spent the last few months seeking counters to these things rather than theorising.
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I love you Lao, but sometimes you come across like an arrogant asshole. Is blitz op in 3v3? No Is it Op in World Game? No, Is it OP on the majority of the 1000+ maps? No, it is only OP in 1 setting on 1 map and should not be changed for the minority that play that setting. I made my suggestion for the -1 city bonus to inf to counter some of the defence pluses blitz has (numbers) so test that for the next few months whilst I theorise. As you said in your original post the focus should be on bringing RA, GC, DS, HW, LB up to a competative level. This should be across all maps and settings not just 10k eu+
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its op on every setting you can blitz rush, i already said that in my posts. with cheap fast militia you can even do it on 3k. Blitz is not on par with the other competitive strats. And i did say the others need to be brought up to the competitive level, but blitz needs to be brought down, minor boosts to ra gc etc wont change that. Dont just take my word for it, i am but one opinion. Listen to the arguments of the others. and whatever about the other 1000+ maps, theyre irrelevant, aw was built around the default map and its units, mapmakers can adjust their maps if needed to accomodate gameplay with the strats, but precious few mapmakers pay regard to the strats when making their units/maps anyway. For the record though, blitz is op on scenarios with immobile units, other units with high stats, and low city density maps where maneuverability is essential. this basically includes all RP maps, which is like 50% of aws map pool. anyway this argument is pointless, just agree to disagree and discuss something else.
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Nice selfish act, its possible to count all the maps that lack default units with the palm of your hand. Blitz is not OP in scenarios, if something is OP in scenarios is PD. PD is love PD is life.
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Don't worry about nerfing laochra, just focus on boost. When something is significantly op, it will be nerfed. As of now, blitz is just a little op in a very specific situation. I recommend we take a look at my earlier suggestion about the RA boost. I still agree that blitz should get -1 on mil, because I was just used to old blitz, and not expecting a new heavy defensive blitz, but I will get used to it.
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Plzzz Nerf blitz quickly !!! No one wants to duel east now. Laochra can you list the differents nerf ideas again ? Idk if possible but putting 2,5 extra range instead of 3 seems good !
---- Only the Braves
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isn't that more a Ukr > Turk in 1v1 as it always kinda has been, at least that's my experience
---- The best players are those who think outside the box and aren't afraid to try something new
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That's exactly what i was saying ! But i agree blitz ukr make ukr even more op compared to turk. Let's change fast
---- Only the Braves
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Omg.... this seems like a global crisis XDDD don't make me laugh... just cause Ukr blitz seems to be strong against Turkey in 1 vs 1 you're about to nerf a strategy that affects many other circunstances than a fucking 1 vs 1 in Eu... Play Italy vs Ukr! Play Germany vs Ukr! Play even freaking RA Poland against blitz Ukr! No one had complained about blitz untill this fucking moment in which the majority of Eu players realised that besides SM Ukr, you can play it with blitz! Until this moment, most people considered it as a noob and useless strat... Stop the cry already!
---- Don't ever look down on someone unless you're helping him up. Don't ever treat someone else the way you wouldn't want others to treat you. We're all people. 
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