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Original post

Posted by Professor Adog, 07.06.2020 - 09:48
Adog's Competitive Ancient V6.23

Showcase, Analysis and Meta










Part I: Presets






[ANC+] Competitive Ancient Plus

Great for 10k 3v3s!





[ANCW] Competitive Ancient West

Great for 10k Duels!





[ANCE] Competitive Ancient East

Great for 2v2s! Possibly also 5ks but not designed for that










Part II: Income Analysis



The Western front




The further west and north Rome and Carthage finds themselves... the more uncivilised and poor the land becomes!


The Eastern front












Part III: Units and Buildings















Part IV: Meta



3v3 10k Picks!





Rome vs Carthage






Macedonia vs Egypt





Pontus vs Armenia





POINTS OF CONTENTION!










Part V: Expansions



Presenting: NC Carthage!









Presenting: PD Rome!










Presenting: NC Egypt (Rhodian Rush)!













Presenting: Macedonia?


I will let the players explore this one!







Presenting: Blitz Pontus!













Presenting: Blitz Armenia!




















Part VI: Conclusions and Raison d'être



I made this map, not for the map competition, but because Viceroy and a few others wanted to host a competitive tourney for mid ranks (r6-r9)

Funding was quickly secured in April, and the question became - on what map would this be hosted? I did not believe that the current ancient maps were fit for duels and 3v3 usage, and so I decided to create this map for the gladiatorial games tourney that will be held.

Of course, Alois announcing a map competition made me want to enter this into the map tourney too :D. Tourneyception



Special thanks to: Professor Pliny and Professor Black Vortex

Enjoy!








Part VII: Updates


Patch 1.1


After watching and also participating in many games hosted by competitive players... I have deliberated on an update.

- 30 income from Capua

+ 20 income for Terracina (new port city)
+ 1 reinforcement for terracina (new port city)

Net change:
Starting cash unmodified
+1 reinf
-10 income

This should balance things out more for Rome.




Patch 1.2


Once again I have delivered another update.

I have made Carthage and Rome significantly cheaper (this was by decreasing their income slightly)

I have also given Rome more reinforcement and changed Terracina to Pisae

This should make them both more viable, but in particular, make Rome stronger, so that it may contest against Carthage.


09.06.2020 - 07:26
Written by RaulPB, 09.06.2020 at 06:52

Written by Professor Adog, 09.06.2020 at 04:09

We're not trying to impersonate anything. Usually, it's a controversial cartography topic that is discussed.

Hahahaha I bet you're just some grumpy stubborn tryhards, I'm curious as to how tryhard you guys can get


This is also the academy that has been working with and has many members being current/former AW staff trying to make the community better and promoting cartography.

We have planned and are involved in a variety of projects to improve this community. There are often many debates, the result of which are usually disseminated into the AW community afterwards. Nobody is grumpy or stubborn, and though the faculty are often brutally honest to each other, nobody takes it personally. If you believe that we are trying hard, we are doing so for this community. Perhaps the question should be, why do you view that as an offensive thing, and if not a tryhard.... why aren't you trying hard for this community?

Please refrain from any redundant ad hominem attacks in this showcase thread. Thank you.
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09.06.2020 - 09:36
Written by Professor Adog, 09.06.2020 at 07:26

This is also the academy that has been working with and has many members being current/former AW staff trying to make the community better and promoting cartography.

We have planned and are involved in a variety of projects to improve this community. There are often many debates, the result of which are usually disseminated into the AW community afterwards. Nobody is grumpy or stubborn, and though the faculty are often brutally honest to each other, nobody takes it personally. If you believe that we are trying hard, we are doing so for this community. Perhaps the question should be, why do you view that as an offensive thing, and if not a tryhard.... why aren't you trying hard for this community?

Please refrain from any redundant ad hominem attacks in this showcase thread. Thank you.

I never thought it could be this easy to trigger your inner scientist speaker, Adog. You guys really are too prefesional for my goofiness

(ok... I'll try to be more serious... sorry)

Does tryhard always have to be inherently negative? Can't it be something neutral or positive depending on the situation? I'm not english so you might have a more accurate perspective on linguistic affairs. Anyhow, it wasn't meant to be a legitimate attack, just goofing around, I don't usually go around offending people because I'm bored. The refined, political sounding, elaborate, bold, somewhat reverent, imposing and condescending tone which I happened to detect due to my quite improvable reading comprehension triggered my inner goof I am horrific at remaining serious for too long, specially if I do not feel the necessity due to the circumstances of my surrounding. And well... AW is AW.

To conclude my apologies, I'd politely request your Imperial group of professors, and yourself, to be less serious.

PD: host for me this map already!
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Don't ever look down on someone unless you're helping him up. Don't ever treat someone else the way you wouldn't want others to treat you.
We're all people.

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09.06.2020 - 11:21
Quote:
I never thought it could be this easy to trigger your inner scientist speaker, Adog. You guys really are too prefesional for my goofiness

(ok... I'll try to be more serious... sorry)

Does tryhard always have to be inherently negative? Can't it be something neutral or positive depending on the situation? I'm not english so you might have a more accurate perspective on linguistic affairs. Anyhow, it wasn't meant to be a legitimate attack, just goofing around, I don't usually go around offending people because I'm bored. The refined, political sounding, elaborate, bold, somewhat reverent, imposing and condescending tone which I happened to detect due to my quite improvable reading comprehension triggered my inner goof I am horrific at remaining serious for too long, specially if I do not feel the necessity due to the circumstances of my surrounding. And well... AW is AW.

To conclude my apologies, I'd politely request your Imperial group of professors, and yourself, to be less serious.

PD: host for me this map already!


Aye aye cap'n. All in good taste
To get back to you, none of what was said is ofcourse personal
We just love debating over here, and ofcourse we respect all opinions regarding our work as coalition
We'll make sure to host this pearl, and I would be more than glad to see you enjoy it!
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Infinctus Callidas, Decus Aeternum
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09.06.2020 - 13:00
 Black Vortex (Mod)
Obligatory comment to provoke a response from Adog
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09.06.2020 - 13:11
Written by Black Vortex, 09.06.2020 at 13:00

Obligatory comment to provoke a response from Adog
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09.06.2020 - 14:09
Written by Black Vortex, 09.06.2020 at 13:00

Obligatory comment to provoke a response from Adog

Adog responds with standard prescripted response, followed by a thumbup

PS: thanks for promoting the map I put your name on the special thanks list
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09.06.2020 - 14:10
Written by Emperor Alois, 09.06.2020 at 13:11

Written by Black Vortex, 09.06.2020 at 13:00

Obligatory comment to provoke a response from Adog

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09.06.2020 - 14:48
Nice map! Hope you win

Hope to play this some time!
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09.06.2020 - 17:34
Patch 1.2


Once again I have delivered another update.

I have made Carthage and Rome significantly cheaper (this was by decreasing their income slightly)

I have also given Rome more reinforcement and changed Terracina to Pisae

This should make them both more viable, but in particular, make Rome stronger, so that it may contest against Carthage.


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09.06.2020 - 17:57
Written by Professor Pliny, 09.06.2020 at 11:21

Aye aye cap'n. All in good taste
To get back to you, none of what was said is ofcourse personal
We just love debating over here, and ofcourse we respect all opinions regarding our work as coalition
We'll make sure to host this pearl, and I would be more than glad to see you enjoy it!

Ahoy matey! Yup, Adog finally had the kindness of hosting it for me, I felt loved for once in my lonely life by him!

I believe I already proved my points to Adog by that game central Hispania is a bit overdone, it should definately be divided or something, and Rome needs a reprogramming or something as it seems really fragile due to its inmense cost and rather few and weak expansion possibilities. I'd rather avoid picking rome in a competitive match.

I love demonstrating my points with a real match now I'll have to try it again and prove my superior instinct!
----
Don't ever look down on someone unless you're helping him up. Don't ever treat someone else the way you wouldn't want others to treat you.
We're all people.

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09.06.2020 - 19:07
Written by RaulPB, 09.06.2020 at 17:57

I love demonstrating my points with a real match now I'll have to try it again and prove my superior instinct!


I still disagree with the majority of your points on iberia and in fact a lot of the points you presented in this thread originally was about accuracy, not balance. Quite the opposite of the """superior instinct""" you speak of today. Which is why I ignored the vast majority of it.

I do agree that Rome is too weak and fragile. However, that was not my balancing instinct. Most of my instincts worked out, whilst Pliny contradicted me every time. Rome (and macedon) is the only time I have listened to his advice. So if you want to challenge anyone on Rome (and also Macedon), it would be Pliny, not me

Even whilst literally everybody (comp players to cartographers and including me) agree that Rome is far too weak, Pliny still believes that Rome is too OP. You can debate Pliny on this, not me. I am more than gladly happy to buff Rome and tweak the western front.
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10.06.2020 - 01:38
Quote:
I still disagree with the majority of your points on iberia and in fact a lot of the points you presented in this thread originally was about accuracy, not balance. Quite the opposite of the """superior instinct""" you speak of today. Which is why I ignored the vast majority of it.

I do agree that Rome is too weak and fragile. However, that was not my balancing instinct. Most of my instincts worked out, whilst Pliny contradicted me every time. Rome (and macedon) is the only time I have listened to his advice. So if you want to challenge anyone on Rome (and also Macedon), it would be Pliny, not me

Even whilst literally everybody (comp players to cartographers and including me) agree that Rome is far too weak, Pliny still believes that Rome is too OP. You can debate Pliny on this, not me. I am more than gladly happy to buff Rome and tweak the western front.


Allow me to add onto that Adog
I believe Rome is not as weak as people make it out to be, and I firmly believe a skilled Rome could still outmatch a Carthage ^^.
That being said, if matches constantly prove otherwise there's no reason to shy away from improvements

If anyone has problem with Macedon come at me. Criticism is encouraged!
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Infinctus Callidas, Decus Aeternum
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10.06.2020 - 04:55
Written by Professor Adog, 09.06.2020 at 19:07

I still disagree with the majority of your points on iberia and in fact a lot of the points you presented in this thread originally was about accuracy, not balance. Quite the opposite of the """superior instinct""" you speak of today. Which is why I ignored the vast majority of it.

I do agree that Rome is too weak and fragile. However, that was not my balancing instinct. Most of my instincts worked out, whilst Pliny contradicted me every time. Rome (and macedon) is the only time I have listened to his advice. So if you want to challenge anyone on Rome (and also Macedon), it would be Pliny, not me

Even whilst literally everybody (comp players to cartographers and including me) agree that Rome is far too weak, Pliny still believes that Rome is too OP. You can debate Pliny on this, not me. I am more than gladly happy to buff Rome and tweak the western front.

Cause it was both about accuracy and balancing tho you saw that first handedly, central hispania is not weak, it was stronger than rome itself and could probably be even more than carth as well

1v1 me and I'll prove you every single point!!
----
Don't ever look down on someone unless you're helping him up. Don't ever treat someone else the way you wouldn't want others to treat you.
We're all people.

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10.06.2020 - 09:23
I'm glad to see veteran ancient players collaborating with seasoned map makers to improve a map.

Also, it's nice seeing a new refurbished ancient coming out aimed at competitive and also ffa/team games.
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For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
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10.06.2020 - 13:27
Written by RaulPB, 10.06.2020 at 04:55

1v1 me and I'll prove you every single point!!


Rome will need a second buff in improving expansion quality which I will do tonight.

1.2 was not the end of it. I am just making small buffs to balance it properly, so the pendulum doesn't swing the other way.

Written by Professor Pliny, 10.06.2020 at 01:38

I believe Rome is not as weak as people make it out to be, and I firmly believe a skilled Rome could still outmatch a Carthage ^^.
That being said, if matches constantly prove otherwise there's no reason to shy away from improvements


In all fair matches (where high ranks r10-r13, who knew the meta and incomes and played on it before) ... in about 10 rounds of testing. No Rome has ever won, in a fair match.
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10.06.2020 - 14:05
Written by Freeman, 10.06.2020 at 09:23

I'm glad to see veteran ancient players collaborating with seasoned map makers to improve a map.

Also, it's nice seeing a new refurbished ancient coming out aimed at competitive and also ffa/team games.


Thank you very much I hope that after a few more minor balancing patches (mostly tweaks in the west tbh) that you and the community will enjoy it <3
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11.06.2020 - 05:11
Written by Professor Adog, 10.06.2020 at 13:27

Rome will need a second buff in improving expansion quality which I will do tonight.

1.2 was not the end of it. I am just making small buffs to balance it properly, so the pendulum doesn't swing the other way.

In all fair matches (where high ranks r10-r13, who knew the meta and incomes and played on it before) ... in about 10 rounds of testing. No Rome has ever won, in a fair match.

Just contact me whenever you're done with tweaks and host it again
----
Don't ever look down on someone unless you're helping him up. Don't ever treat someone else the way you wouldn't want others to treat you.
We're all people.

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14.06.2020 - 12:42
So many 1 reinf cities.
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14.06.2020 - 17:04
Written by Sternberg, 14.06.2020 at 12:42

So many 1 reinf cities.


What do you suggest?
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Infinctus Callidas, Decus Aeternum
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